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Letter to the Editor: On the Greek Language in the Divine Liturgy

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Source: The National Herald

To the Editor:

Due to indisposition I stayed at home last Sunday and watched the Divine Liturgy from 10 o’clock until almost 12. The Liturgy is broadcast from the Holy Resurrection Church with presiding priest Fr. Panteleimon Papadopoulos, the former deacon of Archbishop Demetrios, and is mostly in English and the impressive thing is that now the cantors chant in English, too, because now there are also cantors who were born here in the United States.

And I will briefly recount the course of English in the Church.

When I came to America in 1955, the Archbishop was Michael and the Liturgy was held only in Greek because at that time the entire congregation was from Greece. All the priests were from Greece and just a few knew English, until Michael died and Iakovos came, who in 1970 had the Gospel readings, the Creed, and the Our Father said in English in the Liturgy. And then there was a big uproar because most people didn’t want English. Then came Spyridon, who was in favor of the Greek language even though he was born here, but Spyridon only stayed three years. Then came Demetrios during whose time English entered the Church for good because Greeks were no longer coming from Greece. Our children entered the Church for good, there are more priests born in America and so English came by itself. But Demetrios always gave his sermon in Greek and added a little in English. And after Demetrios came Archbishop Elpidophoros who found the congregation and priests American-born and their English very advanced. Elpidophoros always gives his sermon in English and also puts in a little Greek and the less Greek we speak the faster we lose our Greekness and I am terribly sorry that this is the reality, that English is a given and Greek is unlikely to return.

Dimitris Georgopoulos
Queens, NY

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21 Comments

  1. Lambros karpodinis on

    Greek in the liturgy should never be abandoned. Not because we’re nationalists. Not because God doesn’t understand English. God understands any language of course. Even an obscure dialect from the Amazonian forest. We need the Greek language because that’s how the gospels were written, the Epistles of Saint Paul, the Church Councils were all conducted in Greek. Greek is the foundation of Christianity. At the minimum, we should hear the Epistle, the Gospel, the Creed and the Lord’s prayer in Greek and English of course. And hymns in Greek do not sound the same as in English, but, they come pretty close. The sermon should be in English. It’s better to abandon English than Greek in liturgy. Because a lot gets lost in translation. Only Greek gives you the nuance that many of God’s words contain.

    • Mr K, please remember that Jesus was a Jew who spoke Aramaic. If people in the church understood Greek it could be used but few people in GOA parishes understand Greek. The apostle Paul states that it is better to speak 5 words in a known language than 10,000 words in an unknown language. Apparently, you are unfamiliar with story of Pentecost. Nuances in language have no value if you can’t understand the language.

    • Mr K, additionally Christ is the foundation of Christianity not the Greek language. Please read the first 3chapters of 1Corinthians.

  2. Cato the Elder on

    Absolutely!

    Greek in the liturgy should never be abolished! In Greece! Although even in Greece it might help the 17% of Greeks who regularly attend church to understand the prayers and responses if it was translated into modern, spoken Greek.

    I’m sure that Mr. Karpodonis would agree that in Romania it should be in Romanian, in Serbia in Serbian, in Lebanon in Arabic, as well as in the Amazonian forest the liturgy should be in an obscure dialect the natives understand.

    Apparently, it is only in English-speaking lands like the US, UK, Australia and some parts of Canada that diasporists insist on the Church being the primary conservator of the modern Greek language and culture.

    It should be clear by now that the diasporists’ only interest is in preserving an omogenia … people of the same race, a hyphenated community to provide financial and political support for Greece and by extension for the Greek Patriarchate in Istanbul.

    The diasporists have no interest in growing Orthodoxy in America or Australia or elsewhere. All the blather about the language the gospels were written in is just silly. Few people even in Greece really understand that language. It just happened to be the lingua franca at that time and place.

    Even French is no longer the lingua franca anymore. Today it is English. To argue against English being the language of the liturgy in the US and other English-speaking lands is like asking for the tides to cease.

    Conceding that the sermon should be in English pretty much says it all.

  3. Peter Ray Millman on

    With your kind permission, may I offer my opinion? Personally, I think everyone should be at least bilingual. It has been proven that being fluent in more than one language makes a person more intelligent. My question to my friend Cato would be: is the language of the US only English or is it English and Spanish? I think services should be offered in Spanish as well as English. Now, the rest of this post has nothing to do with my friend Cato although I certainly welcome his opinion. The Jews believe the Lord’s language is Hebrew according to Rabbi Daniel Lapin. Didn’t our Lord know Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic? Wasn’t the Septuagint that our Lord and the Apostles used written in Greek? If you believe in holy languages as I do, they would be Hebrew, Greek and Latin. Now, JK writes about understanding the language. Isn’t the best way to learn another language through immersion in the language and the culture? Since Greek is a learned language, I see nothing wrong whatsoever with Greek being used in the liturgy. Father Eusebius Stephanou was a big proponent of Hellenism because of the nature of the Logos. In fact, he stated a person can’t really understand Orthodoxy without Hellenism. That is his opinion. To me, as long as the gospel is being preached, that is all that really matters. The gospel is supposed to be preached in every language to all the world. Anyway, that’s my two cents worth which is worth around two cents. Mr. Karcazes, I would be interested in your opinion. Many thanks for your kind indulgence.

  4. Peter, liturgy was never meant to be Greek school. Besides, no one is going to learn Greek by attending a liturgy in Greek. Also, Fr. Eusebius was one of the first priests to serve liturgy all in English. He, and I do not advocate for this, would add protestant hymns.
    That being said, it is good to be a polyglot.

  5. George D. Karcazes on

    Peter Ray,

    Since you’ve asked for my opinion, I will add my own 2 cents to yours.

    I believe that language is simply a means of communication. At various times and in various places, different languages were more prevalent, especially among those who were the most educated.

    Certainly, Hebrew, Latin and Greek are languages, which at least in the “West,” were languages that those who were the most highly educated learned in order to read texts written in those languages in the original.

    I believe that some of the founding fathers of America knew Greek and Latin. Perhaps some also had studied Hebrew. While researchers and scholars may still learn those languages in connection with their studies and writings, I do not believe that they are considered to be universal languages today.

    Modern Greek is spoken only in Greece and among Greek immigrant communities around the world. Ancient or Classical Greek and even the Greek of the Gospels is not spoken anywhere. I don’t think Latin is, either. I am not familiar with Hebrew being spoken anywhere outside of Israel and again in Jewish communities around the world.

    In the West, at one time, French was considered the “international” language. Hence the expression “lingua franca”, In this regard, I suppose I agree with Cato the Elder. Today, English has to be considered to be the “international” language. Commercial airline pilots and ship captains who have to communicate with each other and with air traffic control and port authorities must speak English.

    Having said all this, how does it relate to which language should be used in the Liturgy?

    At this point, I have to agree with JK. The liturgy should be in the language that the people in the pews understand and speak everyday.

    Finally, with respect to Spanish. The latest statistics I’m aware of are that 12.5% of the population of the US speaks Spanish. It is likely that even among those, an increasing number also speak English. While it is a significant number, I do not believe it is fair to say that the US is a Spanish-speaking nation.

    I also do not believe anyone can argue that the US is not an English-speaking nation. As such, the default language in the liturgy should be English, except in parishes where the majority of the parishioners do not understand English.

    • Peter Ray Millman on

      Dear Mr. Karcazes, and JK,
      Thank you gentlemen for your kind, intelligent responses to my erroneous post. I was wrong to demean English; after all, two of my favorite poets are the Bard and Lord Byron. I mention Spanish, because it’s a pretty easy language to learn, and I really enjoy the poetry of Pablo Neruda. Also, I shouldn’t have mentioned Greek as a sacred language. Pertaining to Greek, I was thinking of e fact that after the fall of Constantinople, many Byzantine Greek Scholars brought the Greek Classics to Italy, and are credited with spawning the Italian Renaissance. I’m a real big fan of Brunelleshi, Michaelangelo, and especially the great Leonardo Da Vinci. In any event, I thank you for your much needed corrections. I’ve learned from both of you erudite gentlemen.

  6. Except in the upper levels of church authority where Greek vernacular may be used, the administrative language of the GOA today is English. Clergy-Laity plenaries are conducted in English; communication with media is in English; Parish councils conduct business in English, Sunday school classes are taught in English; even seminary classes in Theology, Patristics and ceremonial instruction are conducted in English; annual parish meetings are conducted in English; announcements and sermons from the pulpit are in English; even the most personal sacrament of Confession is conducted in English. So, why must we worship in a foreign language?

    In short, English is still the communication language in America. This reality has been ignored by church leaders. I believe it is a main reason Greek schools have not flourished in this country. In most parishes, Greek has been taught to children as a resident language instead of a foreign language by many unqualified teachers. The assumption that Greek is spoken at home has confounded thousands of youngsters who have dreaded attending Greek school. In the end, most have learned very little and retained less.

    So, here we are in the 21st Century where English-speaking Orthodox Christians of Greek descent find it difficult to relate to church services conducted in New Testament Greek. Expecting them to struggle to connect with their faith under such conditions is sure to evoke painful memories of Greek school.

    I have always been able to separate the Orthodox Faith from flag-waving “Hellenism.” But church leaders have not. Clearly, both models have a place in one’s life; but to insist on this partnership to prevail in this country simply does a disservice to both.

    The Greek Orthodox Church can no longer ride shotgun on the stagecoach of Hellenism! It must seize the reins of leadership and re-focus on delivering the Orthodox Faith in the language of the people, if it is to survive in America.

    • Steven, I appreciate and respect your logical and rational reasoning, but you fail to affirm the teaching of Scripture. I again repeat the words of St Paul in 1 Corinthians (it is better to speak 5 words in a known language than 10,000 words in an unknown language). Greek is unknown to the majority of the members of the GOA. Besides, the purpose of a church is not the promotion or perpetuation of a language but rather the preaching and living of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

      Peter, I am touched by your humility – a rare quality in today’s world.

  7. A RESPONSE TO: THE GREEK ORTHODOX LEGACY IN AMERICA
    Vaseili Doukas
    19 December 2023

    INTRODUCTION

    As a cradle born Orthodox Christian of second-generation Greeks, whose parents had come to America in the early years of the 20th Century, I agree in general with the overarching thesis of Mr. Steven Stamatis’ essay: The Greek Orthodox Legacy in America: A Struggle for Relevance in an Unorthodox World, published by Orthodox Christian Laity.
    As a former active parishioner of a Greek Orthodox parish, but now having been a parishioner of the Orthodox Church in America for decades, I wish to add my thoughts to Mr. Stamatis’ writing. My remarks also are buttressed by my training and experience as a cultural anthropologist.
    I left the GOA for the OCA over several issues. Among those issues were the non-use, and in some cases the absolute refusal, to use English in the worship services coupled with a lack of fullness of Orthodox worship. I initially was exposed to English Orthodox worship and a more full Orthodox worship cycle via my membership in Orthodox Christian Fellowship (OCF) during my college years. Since the OCF was comprised of Orthodox college students drawn from a variety of ethnic jurisdictions, it was a revelation to me to see how easy it was to use English to worship in an Orthodox manner — for how could we worship together if we did not use English? Using English in Orthodox worship in no way diminishes one’s love and practice of one’s ethnic culture.
    Specifically, I would offer the following observations with regard to Mr. Stamatis’ article.

    ARCHAIC LITURGICAL EXPERIENCE
    I reject outright the characterization as GOA worship as an “archaic liturgical experience.” To be sure, using Koine/Byzantine Greek in worship is archaic. However, to lump the notion that our liturgical experience is archaic is to beg the question that our liturgical worship cycles are in need of a “reformation” as some in the GOA have advocated. There are two dynamics at work here: language and worship — how we profess our Orthodoxy via “right worship.”

    DENIAL OF ENGLISH
    On more than one occasion, I have experienced priests who outright banned the use of English in Orthodox worship. I have heard psaltis and the laity say that if worship is not conducted in Greek, then it is not Orthodox! Moreover, I have heard psaltis threaten to “leave” if they were required to use English. And perhaps this may be the crux to one problem in using English. Unlike the OCA and other jurisdictions, the GOA does not have a strong laity music tradition. Listening to the psalti drone on in Greek does not bode for development of a living liturgical tradition.

    SIN
    How we address “sin” – (h)amartia (αμαρτια) – brings into question how the “missing the mark” has been addressed throughout the recent history of the GOA. A topic which brings up the current controversies revolving around the Ephraimites and the moral theology of the headliners of Public Orthodoxy. Such a topic is outside the scope of this paper and my response.

    CONFESSIONS OF IMMIGRANT HEIRS and COMPREHENDING THE MESSAGE
    Again, to write “…the ceremony before us plays to a medieval congregation in the language of that period…,” I find totally offensive. I, by no means, consider my liturgical participation to be happening in a medieval congregational setting. The worship cycle of the Orthodox Church is not medieval in nature, but it is timeless. As Metropolitan Kallistos Ware has emphasized: with the words uttered by the deacon prior to the intonation of the priest, “It is time to act,” we enter into the Kingdom of God — not into some sort of medieval passion play.

    MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE
    Such claptrap! I cringe when I hear Orthodox Christians talking about having a mystical experience at services sans the knowledge of what it is they are actually hearing and understanding. Such Church Fathers as St Basil the Great and Blessed Augustine of Hippo write that the words or the services are so paramount that the music accompanying these words must not drown out the words so that the congregation may hear and understand what is being sung.
    The dominant Orthodox concept here is one of spiritual delusion: plani – πλανι: prelest -рледестБ.
    To believe that one is experiencing some sort of mystical experience is to place that believer in peril of spiritual delusion. For even Satan can appear as an angel of light.

    ABOUT ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS
    Ever since I read John Mason Neal’s translations of our Orthodox services, I have been amazed at how different translators have rendered into English our services from Greek. Some of these services are like night and day. I often wonder whether the translators are looking at the same source material. I know of a priest in England who has a hobby of collecting translations and marveling at their disparity.
    But as a realist, I know that we Orthodox here in America will never have a standard English translation of the services. Just look at how the GOA took the standard Christ Is Risen hymn and altered it.

    MYSTICAL vs EMOTIONAL
    Again prelest/plani raises its ugly and sinful head.
    Our churches are not “shrouded in symbolic ritual and ceremony.” The symbols and rituals of our liturgical worship are there for a reason: some theological and others borne out of historical evolution. All that is needed is some basic, simple, pastoral explanation for the laity to more fully understand the raison d’etre of what they are seeing.

    GOC Losing Its Appeal To Greek Descendants
    The services are not served in “ancient Greek.” Ancient Greek is the language of Homer and the Golden Age of Greece. Rather, the services are served in Koine/Byzantine Greek.

    CULTURE and Faith: The Alliance Continues
    In the 1970’s, there was a real “feel” in the air that something in American Orthodoxy was afoot. There was a hope of a united Orthodox Church. Unfortunately, that dream was crushed and sent into the dust bin of history. Why? In December 1994, at the now (in)famous conclave at Ligonier, PA, chaired by Archbishop Iakovos, 29 bishops representing 10 Orthodox jurisdictions recommended one administrative united American Orthodox Church with each ethnic jurisdiction still maintaining ties to her Mother Church. The Ecumenical Patriarch was outraged at such an afront. Archbishop Iakovos was summarily sacked and sent into exile.
    Phyletism, condemned in 1871 at a pan-Orthodox council, was alive and well in the 20th Century.
    Jurisdictional matters all boil down to the question of who is going to wear the top miter!
    As GOYA was chopped at the knees, so was the Orthodox Christian Fellowship (OCF) disenfranchised at a GOA clergy-laity conference (in 1976?).

    Finally, Hellenism: the equating of Hellenism with Greek Orthodoxy has been and continues to be a disaster. An irrational devotion to Hellenism accounts for the re-emergence of pagan Greek religion, replete with people wearing costumes and conducting what they believe were the rites of ancient Greece.
    You can call for a program of instruction in the Greek language — but this is for instruction in Modern, not Koine/Byzantine Greek. Few are those teachers who can instruct in that language. Realistically, how many students will become knowledgeable and fluent in the intricacies of the Middle, Passive, and Optative verb forms? And how many cases are there: five or eight?

  8. Again, your logic and knowledge are impeccable but you fail to mention the very direct guidance from Scripture (it is better to speak 10 words in a known language than 10,000 words in an unknown language). Scripture, as well as patristic sources, have authority in the church and are more authoritative than human reasoning and logic.

  9. Cato the Elder on

    It seems to me that Mr. Stamatis and Mr. Doukas are pretty much singing from the same hymnal.

    Mr. Doukas apparently left the GOA for the autocephalous OCA years ago primarily over the issue of English in the services (although he cites other valid reasons).

    Mr. Stamatis remains in the GOA, but laments the regression back towards byzantine Greek in many parishes rather than progressing towards the use of English as the primary liturgical language.

    JK reminds us all that speaking in a known language is preferable to insisting on using an unknown language.

    I attended a Nativity Concert in Chicago a couple of nights ago sponsored by the Pan-Orthodox Clergy Association with choirs from several Orthodox parishes as well as the area Pan Orthodox Choir.

    I should not have been surprised that the selections were all the different languages, none of which I understood.

    Still, I was disappointed at the absence of English!

    Apparently, “pan Orthodox” today means Romanian, Serbian, Greek, etc., but it does not include American English.

    As a sop to those in attendance whose first language is English, there were three short Christmas carols printed on the back of the program which the audience was invited to “sing along.”

    I pray that my grandchildren may some day attend a Nativity Concert in which they will understand all of the hymns and carols in their own known language.. with, perhaps one or two in foreign languages as well.

    While I’m at it, I’ll also pray that they will be able to attend liturgical services where they are invited to participate by singing the responses of “the people” led by choirs rather than the droning on and on of chanters.

    • Lambros karpodinis on

      Orthodoxy has been divided along ethnic lines, since the break up of the Ottoman empire. One of the reasons for that is that the original language of the Eastern part of Christendom, Greek, was not mandated, as was Latin to the Westerner Christians. The Slavs became Christian and liturgized in their own language. So, that language division carried into America’s Orthodox immigrant communities. We must keep in mind, that the Greek language is the original language of Christianity. The Gospels were written in Greek, the church councils were conducted in Greek, the church fathers were steeped in Greek philosophy. The other Orthodox languages dont have that connection, as Greek does. So, Greek language in the liturgy should never be abandoned completely. At the minimmum, the Creed, the Epistle, The Lord’s prayer the Gospel should be read in both English and Greek. And the hymns, if sung in English, lose their poignancy as any poem would in translation. The bottom line is that God understands any language we pray to Him. We need the Greek language to comprehend what God has taught US. I constantly find passages translated into English, that have lost their original meaning as written in Greek. Additionally, the liturgical books in the pews give us the translation, from the Greek.

      • Mr K, it is not the language of the scriptures that we worship but the person the scripture tells about – the Messiah Jesus Christ. Jesus was a Jew and spoke Aramaic. The majority of Scripture was written in Hebrew. At Pentecost, those present heard the message in their own language. Liturgy is meant to be understood as I have quoted St. Paul’s directive many times. Yes, Greek was the lingua franca of the time and was extensively used in the early Church, but as the Church expanded, the language of the people was used. Most people in the GOA don’t understand Greek; thus liturgy has become meaningless. Why not do everything in English, a language people understand, and have books for those who want to follow along in Greek. Additionally, please site a few examples of passages that lose their meaning in English.

      • The Greek Orthodox Church in the United States is a very important lobbying tool for the Greek nation like AIPAC is for Israel. The United States is the richest and most powerful country in the world, and small nations like Greece seek to maintain a positive working relationship with it. Therefore, the Greek Orthodox Church in America will continue to maintain its identity and its close relationship with Greece and Greek culture through its liturgical services and its community organizations. This may also be true for the other Orthodox ethnic churches like the Bulgarians, Russians, Serbians, Romanians, etc.

        In the online publication, Orthodox Times, the prime minister of Greece most recently stated that one of his priorities is to maintain a working relationship with Greeks in the diaspora and in the United States.The best way to accomplish this is through the Greek church.

        • Peter, the Christian church was not established to be a lobbying agent for any government but rather it was established to live and spread the Gospel of salvation and new life in Jesus Christ. Mr Mitsotakis, who may be an atheist and supports gay marriage, is not the head of the GOA, Jesus Christ is .

          • Peter Ray Millman on

            Greetings JK and Cato the Elder,
            May the Lord bless and prosper you both in the new year. Not to be a high and mighty pompous twit, but I think it’s possible that you may think this “Peter” dude is me. In my humble opinion, he seems to be an alright kind of guy, but he’s not me. (Not that I’m in any way above him because I’m the least of all). Anyway, gentlemen, it is my humble intention to cease commenting on these pages as of the first of this year, not because this isn’t a great web page, but I just don’t want to overstay my welcome, and if I figure I’m starting to bore myself, I shudder to think how much readers to this forum may be suffering if they happen to read any of my posts. May God have mercy on me a sinner (and a boring one at that!!). Many thanks for your kind indulgence. Love in Christ!!

            • Peter, I appreciate your posts and hope you will change your mind. Your posts are informative, interesting and in no way boring. Praying that you change your mind.

        • Cato the Elder on

          Peter,

          There is no comparison between the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (GOA) and AIPAC.

          AIPAC is a registered lobbyist and donations to it are not tax deductible.

          The GOA is not registered as a lobbyist and donations to it are tax deductible. [Although arguments have been made that it should lose it’s tax status because of its lobbying]

          AIPAC is professional, non-partisan, and effective.

          The GOA’s lobbying efforts with respect to US government policy are unprofessional, partisan and ineffective. It consists of March 25th White House photo ops and laughable gestures like “Bidenopoulos” awarding the GOA’s Vicar General with the Medal of Freedom.

          The Turks pay professional lobbyists in D.C. and the Greek Government uses the Church (which doesn’t help Greece, but hurts the Church’s core mission).

          If the Greece/US relationship improves, it is only because their interests happen to coincide.

          Not because of the GOA’s efforts.

          Interesting geopolitical asides:

          Should the Patriarchate of Constantinople (now Istanbul) have the right to appoint/remove all of the GOA’s bishops?

          Why does the Patriarch of Constantinople (now Istanbul) have to be a Turkish citizen?

          Does the Archbishop of the GOA still retain his Turkish citizenship? (so he can move up if/when the time comes?)

          How does the Greece/Turkey relationship effect the operations of the Patriarchate/GOA?

          What does Turkey receive from the US/GOA/Greece in exchange for allowing the Patriarchate of Constantinople (now Istanbul) to maintain its tenuous existence in Turkey?

          Whatever it is, is it worth it? Wouldn’t World Orthodoxy, Orthodoxy in America and the Greece/Turkey and even the US/Turkey relationships all be better off if the Patriarchate of Constantinople relocated from Istanbul to some non-Muslim majority country?

  10. It is true, outside the hallowed arches of an Orthodox Church, we find ourselves in an unorthodox environment. We look to the Church to help regulate our moral compass. But for many in the GOA, the ecclesial experience is still stalled in the “Language” section, unable to move towards Theology and spiritual growth. Fortunately, Mr. Vaseili Doukas doesn’t have that problem in the OCA, but many of us are still in the trenches struggling with a troubling disconnect between the church and contemporary Greek Orthodox faithful.

    Many thanks to Mr. Doukas for taking the time to read “The Greek Orthodox Legacy” paper. I thank him for his erudite comments and professional review. This post is to clarify some misunderstandings regarding this occasional paper.

    MEDIEVAL / ARCHAIC / AINCIENT
    I don’t understand why Mr. Doukas objects to the use of the word “Medieval.” The word refers to the time of the Middle Ages, and there is such a term as “Medieval Greek” which happens to be the language of the Byzantine period. The worship cycle of the Orthodox Church may be timeless, but the point here is, it’s still rooted in a medieval setting. Mention of the word “Archaic” is not an attempt to alter or reclassify a Liturgy. The word is used to demonstrate how most GOA members view it. Unlike The OCA which may not have that problem, to most of us it is ARCHAIC. Use of the word ANCIENT is not intended to solicit a point of academic order. We know the services are in Byzantine Greek. But to many GOA members, it’s still ANCIENT.

    ABOUT SIN
    This word is not used in connection with its definition of spiritual properties. We respectfully leave that topic to the clergy. Many Greek Orthodox today are opposed to the racial/ethnic ideology of the Church. They tend to be influenced more by secular society. As architects of their own moral construction, the word “Sin” has become irrelevant.

    MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE
    Mr. Doukas “cringes” at the very mention of Orthodox Christians having a “Mystical Experience” during the Liturgy. By definition, Mysticism literally means “Understanding the meaning of human existence.” Additionally, Christian mysticism played an important role in the development of the Faith. In context of the occasional paper, this term originated from the lips of a Greek Orthodox bishop. I believe he meant spiritual growth is the result of a series of epiphanic episodes during worship. And I had no problem accepting that explanation.

    Mr. Doukas goes on to characterize a “Mystical Experience” as DELUSIONAL. Well, tell that to John the Baptist, Mark, Luke, especially The Desert Fathers–and don’t forget John Climacus! Why should we bother climbing “The Ladder of Divine Ascent” for spiritual growth if the experience is delusional? What’s the purpose of worship if we can’t partake of an epiphany or major spiritual awareness?

    MYSTICAL / EMOTIONAL
    The Divine Liturgy in the GOA is indeed “Shrouded in Symbolic Ritual and Ceremony.” Unlike the OCA, for us the symbolism and Theological explanation of the Rite are the best kept secrets of our clergy.

    MANY CHRISTMAS BLESSINGS TO ALL

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